Honda crf450x, Yamaha wr450f, KTM xcf-w350-450. Which one?

[blister]

Here's a question for you racers. I have been doing a lot of looking at bikes trying to decide how I might upgrade from the 01 Honda xr250r. I've personally exhausted the question 250 vs 450 and believe I have solidly landed on getting a 450 or maybe 350 KTM. Also, I do want a 4stroke. I would value your knowledge in comparing the bikes that I have narrowed my selection to. I'd be most interested in what you may know in regards to common problems, issues, etc which would lead one to steer clear. I've, of course, read a lot of online stuff in reviews but would like some first hand feedback.

My choices and some of my thoughts:

Honda crf450x - My favorite just because I've always been a honda guy. I've owned every XR from 50 to 400. I still have my first z50r from when I was a kid, along with an xr80 and xr100 for my kids and, of course, the 250.

Yamaha wr450f - Only motorcycle dealership here in Manhattan is Brooks Yamaha. I do a lot of business with them. Might make sense to lean Yamaha for that reason alone. I also hear it requires less maintenance and attention than the CRF.

KTM xcf-w 350 or 450 - Well, I noticed after one race if you don't ride a KTM you are in the minority for sure. Whoa. Kind of makes me not want one just to be different. Seriously though, I don't know much about KTMs. Never had one and never even ridden one. It's obvious they must be awesome based on the sheer number of you guys owning them. I was in Topeka last weekend and stopped into the KTM dealership. I kind of fell in love with xcf-w 350 they had on the floor. They seem pricey, though.

Thanks for any input.

[dvl104]

I think the 450 would be a handful for most anyone. The Honda and Yamaha are a bit heavy and under powered compared to the KTM. There is a reason you see so many KTMs at the race. I feel they make a better machine that is race ready. The other brands need some work $$$ to get to the ready to race KTM. I have had 2 350s and really think that bike is the majic bullet. I ride mostly mx but have HS the 350 sx and it worked great. You might even try a 250f. If you go the KTM route you won't be disappointed. Resale is also better on the KTMs. Welcome to the madness. Have fun.
All this Ktm praise from a guy on a 14 Yamaha 250f. pumpkins for everyone.

[Pumpkinpatch]

I echo David's thoughts.
Unless you are skilled or man enough to muscle a 450 for two hours straight; you might consider a smaller bore. Either that, or you learn very quickly to be judicious in how much you twist the right wrist on a big bike.

Don't discount the 250F too quickly. The new (2013/2014) KTM 250XCF and XCFW are wicked machines. Feel very light and have nice power.

IMO, 350 is the sweet spot. Smooth power most time and you can squeeze it a little and get some exciting speed out of it. Feels pretty light for a mid size thumper, almost two-stroke-esque.
Did I really say that?

Anyway,
You are more than welcome to ride my 350XCFW and see what you think.

[jstr244]

Being a die-hard Honda fan myself, I felt inclined to respond.

A little background info; I recently switched brands from Big Red to the Orange varierty and must say that I am impressed with the box-stock race ready bike they offer. My two previous rides were 2005 and 2010 Honda CRF250R models (Not the off-road 'X' model). I had picked the 'R' model because I wanted a bike with a peppier motor than the 250X had to offer. My current bike is a KTM 300 XC.

HONDA
My opinion of the Honda 250x and 450x is that they are pretty old machinery (based on the 2005 engine/frame I think) with a price-tag that continues to rise with the other manufacturers'. The Honda's are not fuel injected making changing the jetting a potential issue when temperatures/altitudes fluctuate. If you can look past those two flaws of the bike, the Honda 'x' model machines will keep a smile on your face. They are very capable machines with smooth power and plush suspension. Since you are just getting introduced to hare scrambles, this bike is not completely out of the question. I don't know of any fatal flaws with this machine, so it should be reliable for you as long as you keep the oil changed and air filter clean (this isn't a trusty XR, but still very reliable when comparing to other modern 4-strokes). If the valves get tight the bike will be hard to start, check them regular to keep it from being an issue. This is probably the best benefit to the Honda 4-stroke. It has a uni-cam design which makes opening up the head a little less scary!

YAMAHA
I don't know much about the Yamaha's so I can't comment here...I know that the 450 is now fuel injected, but I've also heard that the WR's are the heaviest of the bunch when it comes to offroad 450 models. Someone else can fill you in here hopefully.

KTM
I don't know what more I can say that wasn't said above. The 450 of all manufacturers can be a handful, while the 350 offers a good trade of power and weight over the 450. The KTM's I've seen have been very reliable. You've got the options of XC vs XC-W models (and even a street legal E-XC) to choose from (Think XC - race bike, XC-W balanced trail/race bike, E-XC trail/street bike). KTM constantly pushes technology out to the off road bikes as that was the market that gave KTM momentum in the US.

Final item that should factor heavily into your decision is the dealership around you. I am unfamiliar with Brooks Yamaha, so I can't offer anything there. Just make sure you are comfortable with them getting you parts and servicing your machine if you choose that route. I can say that there are great people at the Topeka KTM dealership (Cycle Zone). Several of the people that work up there are friends of mine and I know that they always take care of their customers -parts, service, questions, you name it!

Oh, and the folks out here at Letko KTM in Olathe also know how to take care of folks if you are ever this way.

PS - I know the feeling of not wanting to have too much orange around you, but you get used to it and the hesitation you once had eventually goes away altogether!

[TWO FIDDY RIDER]

KTM is definitely a step up from the Honda and Yamaha, I have had all three and the KTM is the best in my opinion. I might say the other two are not bad bikes either as said above KTM puts a lot into it's off road and now mx machines.
The 350 XCW is a sweet ride.
As far as dealers I prefer Letko they will definitely take care of you, worth the drive.
Good luck with your decision, see you out there.

[slomojo]

You might as well buy a KTM now,because if you keep racing you will probably have one eventually.

That being said I'm probably going to wear out my Honda a couple more times before I do.

[blister]

Thanks to all who have given input thus far. How valuable this is to me and even an offer to ride the KTM350xcfw (Mark Shafer)...wow and thanks again! You all sure know how to make a new guy feel welcome. Thinking out loud here now....I thought I had sufficiently thrown around the 250 vs 450 self-controversery, but I am thinking about that again now. I guess one of my ultimate and longer term goals was to do some long distance desert racing, where I understand the bigger bikes excel. You'll probably think I'm crazy, but I even have a bucket list item to experience the Baja 1000. The concept of these long distance races really appeals to me. Since this takes considerable travel I would only get 1 or 2 of these in per year. A 250 may certainly be better suited to my more immediate needs for hare scrambles.
.....or 2 different bikes!
Sounds like I just need to get that KTM 350 and quit worrying about it. This is going to be an expensive hobby, isn't it?
Thanks again and I can't wait till that next race.
Chad

[Speedysdad]

I have been a Honda fan since 1976 and I own two now, but after my first ride on a KTM I figured out what all the buzz was about. After spending some quality time on the 350 XCFW several weeks ago, I love riding again. A father of a racing family who has ridden FM several times in the past had a stable full of Yamahas. He rode a KTM went. out and traded for all new KTM'S. Said he gets what all the buzz is about now. (Lol) KTM uses a slogan of Ready to Race, and it is true. You will spend the cost savings of buying a Honda in paying to upgrade the suspension and setup to make the ready to race. This is just the humble opinion of another convert from Honda.

[WireFryer]

Chad, are you dead-set on a 4s?

At the next FM race you attend, look up and down your row and notice how many KTM 300s' of various ages and models you see.... the 2s that acts like a 4s till ya' wring its neck, and almost no PM .

As an aside, the trend the last few Seasons amongst us crafty ol 'Vets is downsizing.... trading in the monster 450 for light, easy starting 125- 200 2s and 250 4s bikes that will leave you with enough energy to drive home on after the show.

I spotted ya on my GoPro vid... a Big dude decked out in Kawi green gear on a Honda XR of questionable heritage, who may have 700 club speed, once you come to the Orange Side..... all will be revealed

Tim
#1085

[blister]

Guess I've never considered a 2-stroke much. I've never owned one and honestly don't know much about them. I'm familiar with 4s and feel comfortable wrenching on them. Probably ignorance, but I've always assumed 2s would require different maintenance, care, etc. Are you saying they are generally less maintenance and easy to care for compared to 4s? I asked for education and you guys are sure delivering. I appreciate it! I look forward to talking in person with some of you and looking over all the options.