Thurman, IA and points

[Gibber]

Dan,

I know you are aware of this issue and I am not trying to stir anything up intentionally but I think some discussion on this may be a good thing.

I had a blast Sunday racing with the Vet 40s again and after looking at the standings I realized I have 8 races under my belt and "3" 13th place finishes ready to drop off. I would like to replace those with top 5 or better finishes and I will get one out of the way when I work Carbondale. So for actual racing, we only have Thurman and Melvern unless you replace Chanute.

That being said, I do not plan to race Thurman because of the points issue with the "one race" entries that we get that end up being much faster than the class they entered. So you drive 3 hours to get a 8th or 10th when it really should have been 4th or 5th because of the guys that race one race a year in our series and blow us out.

I don't think it is intentional but regardless, it does screw up our points. And those guys don't necessarily know they should be in a different class. Since the points mean nothing to these riders is it possible to give them the trophies but apply the points correctly to the appropriate FMHSC racers in the hunt for season points?

I know, it affects everyone the same, right? Not really. Let's say I have a 13th to get rid of and someone else has better finishes so he is looking to get rid of a 5th. I just think there should be an adjustment. If we do an 11-13 race at Big Springs we will have the same issue and we had it last year at Merwin. I really think it deserves some thought.

I hope this makes sense and I would like other rider's feedback on this.

Anyway, I am now thinking about Thurman as I have a chance to move up to the top 3 if the stars all align right. I just think the points should be for the guys/gals really racing for the points.

[Bridgebuilder]

Agreed. but it has happened several times throughout the year and has affected most of in the this class . Least you have a 13th place to drop off. I was late to learn how to hide in the shadows and understand how a couple horrible finishes are actually beneficial at the end of the season.
Looking forward to next 3 races . Like you said and were 100% correct I didn't have a good Walters race . Still wasn't mentality over a bad tumble at Merwin in the last 3 miles of the race. But I plan on ending the season battling not joy riding through the woods lol .
See you on the line . ( no more 4 strokes lol )

[Bridgebuilder]

Anyway after all that rambling. I don't think it would be cool to drop the 1 race wonders off the points just this race. As like I mentioned they have affected us all year .
Just my 2 cents .

[gcat7]

Agree we should have an "opt out of points"- racing series y/n check box for one race wonders at sign up. It does affect the points for those who race the series especially in a tight point standing.

Also Switching classes this late in the season jams other guys from possibly finishing top ten in a class they raced all year. race say 6, 7 or 8+ races in 1 class you shouldn't be allowed to switch classes or if allowed, at least have a point penalty for moving down/up a class.

[Gibber]

Sorry Guys, You may be misunderstanding me just a little bit here. I didn't mean to come off as a complainer and this is not about me it is about everyone chasing the points especially in the mid-speed classes back. I am really not in the hunt anymore and it looks like Shane has just about got it wrapped up. Truth is, with this points issue I have brought up there may not be an advantage for Shane to run Thurman and tear something up. His worst finish to drop off is 6th and history shows he is not likely to do better than that at Thurman. 2014 Tom Brunholz finished 6th with 6 laps and a 73.4% speed!

First of all, this has been a problem forever. The former Drexel Race would draw new riders out of the woodwork and suddenly riders in contention are racing for 10th against riders they wont race against until the next year. Thurman 2014 there were 5 new riders (I assume locals) that took 1st thru 5th with 77% to 87% speeds. Two of which passed Shawn Chappel in the 600s halfway thru the 1st lap! Merwin 2015 GP brought out a couple of expert MXers that were over a minute faster than 3rd place Flyin' Ryan and ran 82%. Thurman 2015 there were 4 riders (again I assume locals) that placed 1st thru 4th at 77% to 87%. You can verify all of this thru previous results and standings. I also believe that if you consider my 2nd place at Milford that Todd Sexton "didn't" race and his 8th place finish at Thurman that really should have been 4th that really may have been the difference between me winning the class and him winning it. See my point?

The second thing is this moving classes deal. I did not ask to move to the 700s. By the time I got the word I had already purchased my graphics with #1001. As you can see my speed damn sure did not justify me being in the 700s this year and the decision to move me was after winning the Vet 40s with a 74.9% (1/10th%) over and not a single win! When it was suggested I move back I was 5th in the 700s and ended up in 6th in the Vet 40s? Believe me, I'm not driving this ship and personally feel this speed and points thing could be looked at a little more carefully.

All that being said, this points adjustment thing I'm talking about needs to be applied to all races. And keep in mind, we run a 14th race at Big Springs on 11-13 and you will see the same issue there too. That race will bring out riders that don't normally race our series.

I don't make the rules but if I race 12 or 13 races and work 2 I am spending more than $400.00 in entry and gate fees + fuel + wear and tear +++. I would just like to know the rules are being applied evenly across the board and if you run an 87% in the Vet 40s you move up and you don't get the points in the Vet 40s. If you're a one race willy you get 0 points, if not, you get the points for the appropriate class. Just like when I moved back to the Vet 40s.

So there!

[Gibber]

By the way everyone. I want to be clear that I "DO NOT" think that this "sandbagging" issue is intentional. (Although, if you run in the wrong class more than one season I may need to re-think that?) The more I learn about this racing thing I have come to find out that FMHSC's Class Regulations and scoring system are somewhat unique. I don't believe there is another series in our area that uses the speed %.

So a 45 year old rider from IA signing up for his 1st race in FMHSC looks at VET 40 class and assumes that is where he belongs not knowing there is a speed limit associated with it. And there is no way the folks at registration can police it. The correction needs to be made after the fact internally.

Everybody still get's their trophies!

[Iamdanjohnson]

There may be an undecided fee of about $20 for all racers who want to earn points in 2017. The fee will go toward better year end awards and will help cover the cost of the extra work involved in giving points to only season points riders. I tried to put this together for 2016 but had several issues I couldn't resolve. The way I am trying to get it to work is that after trophies are handed out, only season points people will get points after removing the one race riders. If the top five guys are one race riders then 6th place will get 1st points that day. It is a lot more difficult to manage than you can imagine.

If I could get more help on race day I could have someone who actually stands at the sign up table and helps guide the rider into the correct class. That person can usually just talk to a rider and figure out what class he should be in. If the rider raced the year before, then it would be possible to see what their percentile is and guide them that way.

[Gibber]

Dan,

Thanks for not chopping my head off over this one. I know it can be a sore subject.

I really like the idea of the "$20.00 Chase The Points" fee. That would make it a lot easier to keep it straight plus if you had only 10 riders from the 100's thru the 1000's sign up that would be $1800.00 you didn't have the year before. That would go a long way toward some really cool awards.

As for the registration thing, this year will probably be it for me chasing the points but I still want to be involved and run some races. I would be happy to help out with sign ups next year. I don't think it will be fool proof but it surely should help.

Anyway, I think you do a great job and I love racing in Forward Motion and the FMHSC family. Any time you get this many people together with so much stuff going on you will have disagreements and issues. Sometimes we just have to meet them head on and put our thinking caps on. There are a lot of smart people in FMHSC that appreciate all you do and are always willing to help. All you have to do is ask!

After all of this it looks like I may have the Speed Shop sold so it looks like Thurman may not be on my schedule after all. I was really starting to think I should try it again. The report sounds like they have done a ton of work to it.

Oh well, It's all good! Right Dan?

[gcat7]

For a non-points racer, how about not giving them a transponder. That way you don't need to mess with points & standings for one race wonders. Might take some fun out of it for them but they're not racing the series so who cares.

For example the sign-up card could look like this:

Racing Series for points? Y /N circle one.
Yes - indicates you will race more than 5 or more FMHSC races this season. $20 Transponder required.
NO - I'm not racing the FMHSC Series. No place, finish time or scoring will be given and no transponder will be issued for this race.

You guys put on a hell of series and it's definitely appreciated. Like Gibber said, series racers have some dough wrapped up in the season. If you look thru the classes, it's really the top 15 or so guys in each class that truly run the entire season and try to place for top 10. I would certainly pay more for cool trophies, transponder fee, or what ever. Having your named called at the banquet for a top 10 season finish is a reward all on it's own.

Just throwing out ideas...for what it's worth. My 2 cents won't get you a gumball these days

[Gibber]

Greg,

Dan would need to answer this one for sure but I think they would need the transponder to be scored just for their place in that race. Also, a lot guys who race (I think) have transponders from their series that will work with Dan's equipment.

It is complicated but I think it needs to be addressed. And I am with you, I would pay a little extra for some cool awards!

Anyway, not sure now what I'm going to do this weekend. I may be stuck getting my trailer emptied and working on my new one. If I don make it have fun and try not to break anything!